The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

God's Creation according to the Bible
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EvedMoshiach777
Posts: 59
Joined: January 1st, 2022, 10:57 am
Location: Germany

The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by EvedMoshiach777 »

Shalom Brothers and Sisters!

I would like to present you some findings regarding the Four Winds as laid out in the Book of Enoch versus the Descriptions found in the Urbano Monte Map. This is just the beginning and hopefully more is going to follow soon.

I will be talking about this section of the Map:
Image
https://ibb.co/WpMCfFp

1.) The East Wind - Levante
Image
https://ibb.co/tzBf6w7

Regarding the East Wind ("Levante") the Map says:
It (the east wind) is temperate and healthy and it brings rain.
Let's see what the Book of Enoch has to say about the East Wind, especially about the Portal in the Middle, i.e. the Second Gate.

Regarding the First Gate we read in Chapter 75:4 :
The first of these winds proceeds from the gate termed the eastern, through the first gate on the east, which inclines southwards. From this goes forth destruction, drought, heat, and perdition.
Regarding the Second Gate, the Middle Gate, we read in Chapter 75:5 :
From the second gate, the middle one, proceeds equity. There issue from it rain, fruitfulness, health, and dew;
WOW! Look at the Keywords found in the Map's description:
  • temperate
  • healthy
  • rain
Then compare it with they Keywords found in Enoch's description:
  • equity
  • rain
  • fruitfulness
  • health
  • dew
2.) The South Wind - Ostro
Image
https://ibb.co/nRPyrM5

Regarding the South Wind ("Ostro") the Map says:
It is unhealthy (maybe this can also mean "destructive, disastrous or causing destruction"), hot and humid.
Furthermore it is pestiferous and generates thunderbolts. [This part is not easy to understand:] It prevented the virtue of men and animals and makes the bodies grains.
All in all the description of the South Wind is very negative and it must be noted that the "blowing head" is the only one who looks different than the other ones and seems to symbolize "death & destruction".

I could not find a fitting description in the Book of Enoch concerning the South wind (regarding the Second Gate / Middle Gate), but there is a description regarding "the last gate [of the West Winds], which is southwards" in Enoch Chapter 75:11 :
And from the last gate, which is southwards, proceed drought, destruction, scorching, and perdition.
This seems to be a perfect description of the South Wind as portrait in the Map.

Nevertheless, regarding the first portal of the South Wind it is said in Enoch 75:6 :
After these proceed the south winds through three principal gates; through their first gate, which inclines eastwards, proceeds a hot wind.
Maybe the order of the winds in this Map is set up differently than in the Book of Enoch. This Map totals 32 different winds (counting the blowing heads), instead of 12 winds as mentioned in the Book of Enoch.

3.) The West Wind - Ponente
Image
https://ibb.co/xDYq5NT

Regarding the West Wind ("Ponente") the Map says:
It serves to generate favour to all things. Through it all things on earth bear fruit.
This is in line with what Enoch says in Chapter 75:10 :
...from the middle gate proceed rain, health, and blessing;
4.) The North Wind - Tramontana
Image
https://ibb.co/3FpxC0H

Regarding the North Wind ("Tramontana") the Map says:
A cold and dry wind that makes good weather. It makes the bodies freeze and constricts them (maybe makes it hard for them to move or work?).


The last part is strange as it seems to say that something is purified ("purifica"), but I cannot make sense of the word "humori". Because this is translated as "humors". Maybe it is an old word for Humidity? or it refers to ones mood? Maybe a reference of cleaning the air? I have no idea!

In Enoch Chapter 75:9 we read something similar to this; at least its description of the middle gate is also positive:
From the middle direct gate proceed rain, dew, life, and health.
However, a cold and dry wind is not mentioned regarding the middle portal, but regarding the third portal (Enoch 75:9) :
And from the third gate, which is westwards, inclining towards the south, proceed mist, frost, snow, rain, dew, and blight.
All in All it must be stated that according to the Teachings of Enoch all "Middle Gates" have a positive effect on the earth, whereas the "First & Third Gates" bring bad things to earth.
Maybe this is a hidden reference to staying on the right path? As we read in Deuteronomy 5:32-33:
32 So you shall observe to do just as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 You shall walk in all the way which the Lord your God has commanded you, that you may live and that it may be well with you, and that you may prolong your days in the land which you will possess.

This is it for now! I try to translate more of the other winds in the upcoming days :)

Blessings from Above!

David
"The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor." - Ḥănōwḵ 14:22
DaveyT
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Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by DaveyT »

David,

This is awesome!!!
I've been waiting and hoping someone with the time and resources could look more closely at this map.
Unfortunately, I have had no time, and still don't, to do much more than what the Lord has on my plate.
I'm so looking forward to seeing more from you, especially regarding the area "Tierra Del Fuego"

Blessings to you my brother,
David
Paul Zietsman
Posts: 64
Joined: May 6th, 2018, 11:47 pm

Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by Paul Zietsman »

Amen to that Davey T, I also look forward to more.
Thanks David
Paul Zietsman
Posts: 64
Joined: May 6th, 2018, 11:47 pm

Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by Paul Zietsman »

I Have considered the interesting information our brother David has shared here, and herewith some thoughts:

Why does the Monte Map in places agree with Enoch, but in other instances seem to disagree?

Firstly, Monte's map is a secular source; not inspired, so there may be some errors - though I believe not intentional.
Secondly, and I think more likely, it is possible that conditions have changed somewhat between the time of Enoch (roughly 5000 years ago) and the time Urbano Monte gathered all his info and compiled this map, almost 500 years ago). In between these two times the Genesis flood took place, and though I do not believe it changed the firmament, it did re-arrange the surface of the earth greatly, and the earth (landmass) was divided by waters in the days of Peleg, shortly thereafter (probably a type of continental drift, but not as the "Pangea Model" proposes). Thus, the position of landmasses have likely changed in their distance and orientation, in relation to the portals of heaven. Refer my post regarding "the four corners of the earth" for more details. Just some thoughts, and a possible solution to the discrepancies.

I still believe the Monte map is one of the most reliable maps we have, but we should always be mindful that it is a secular source, and that conditions and land positions have changed since the flood. Thus comparing the map with Enoch (pre-flood) may in some instances give discrepancies, without these necessarily being inaccurate. The Old and New Testaments do not supply as much of this detail as Enoch does, so it is more difficult to find things of a post-flood era to compare with the Monte map, which is post-flood. I however believe we will find some useful tidbits if we search the OT and NT for them.

Lastly, a reminder of what we should always consider: we should never trust any secular source to the point of vehemently defending it; there are problems with maps and models that we will come across, which we cannot defend without being untrue to the Scriptures - we should defend the Holy Scriptures, and them alone. Anyone who begins defending a certain FE model will soon find themselves unable to provide satisfactory answers, because the models are all flawed to some degree. Ecc 3:11 All the things which He has made are beautiful in His time: He has also set the whole world in their heart, that man might not find out the work which God has wrought from the beginning even to the end.

We will not figure it all out, before we are with HIM in eternity.
DaveyT
Site Admin
Posts: 116
Joined: May 2nd, 2018, 5:36 pm

Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by DaveyT »

Paul Zietsman wrote: January 8th, 2022, 12:48 am We will not figure it all out, before we are with HIM in eternity.
AMEN!! "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face ..." 1 Cor 13:12a

I feel the same way regarding Enoch, Jasher and Jubilees. There are questions I can't answer, yet I know there are insights God wants us to gain from them. We don't want to paint ourselves into a corner, especially with the professing believer who boast "Sola Scriptura" yet does not believe them. There are so many things I've gained from Enoch that could never be clearly explained relying solely on the canon.
EvedMoshiach777
Posts: 59
Joined: January 1st, 2022, 10:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by EvedMoshiach777 »

Dear Brother Paul and Brother David!

Your words are truly filled with both DIVINE WISDOM and DIVINE HUMILITY. Whenever I read your posts, I am filled with love and joy that can only stem from the blessed source of the Holy Spirit! I am always refreshed when reading your words!

Paul Zietsman wrote:
Lastly, a reminder of what we should always consider: we should never trust any secular source to the point of vehemently defending it;
AMEN! Thats so true. In fact I just did the comparison to see if this secular map matches the superior and inspired writings of the Prophet Enoch our beloved brother! And they did to some extent. Thank you Paul for your other insights as well! They add to my understanding. I remember doing a word study on the word/verb "Peleg / palag" and was amazed that the verb is also related to indicating an Earthquake!
https://ibb.co/3pWZ8xJ

The verb pālaḡ means:
I.) to divide, split
A.) in the passive form (hebr. Niphal) it means "to be split, be divided"
B.) in the "Piel Stem" (indicating all kinds of ACTIONS in contrast to the passive form) it can mean that:
I.) something splits or cleaves
II.) something divides
Source: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... v/wlc/0-1/

So yes, indeed the way our earth looks like now, in no ways resembles the Pre-Flood world. There is so much one could say about the conditions back then and sometimes I pray that YHWH may grant me to have some kind of vision or dream of the Pre-Flood world, to see how it looked like and how life was back then. Imagine, all these people woke up, had to work for their living, had the same fears, sorrows, plans, dreams, desires etc as we do. But almost nothing is known about them as was prophesied by King Salomon who wrote:
10 Is there anything of which one might say, “See this, it is new”? It has already existed for ages which were before us. 11 There is no remembrance of the earlier things, and of the later things as well, which will occur, there will be no remembrance of them among those who will come later still. - Ecclesiastes 1:10-11 NASB
I just realize the previous verses contribute much to our current discussion regarding the winds (an FE in general):
5 Also, the sun rises and the sun sets; And hurrying to its place it rises there again. 6 Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns. 7 All the rivers flow into the sea, Yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, There they flow again. - Ecclesiastes 1:5-7 NASB
Indeed we live in a closed system! AMEN! Many Blessings to you and your loved ones!
"The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor." - Ḥănōwḵ 14:22
EvedMoshiach777
Posts: 59
Joined: January 1st, 2022, 10:57 am
Location: Germany

Re: The Four Winds - Urbano Monte vs. Prophet Enoch The Righteous

Post by EvedMoshiach777 »

PS: Loved that Scripture David!
AMEN!! "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face ..." 1 Cor 13:12a
"The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor." - Ḥănōwḵ 14:22
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